You have different things that are going on daily. When we take action, when we take responsibility, then you realize that’s what you do. I helped a friend who is a tour guide and she at some point overbooked so she couldn’t handle all her tours and I helped one of them.

And of course, I’m not a tour guide person and I have no training on it. And I service them the way I would talk to any person that you know. I don’t know the specific language. I don’t know how to accommodate them. I just show them around. And this tour is because of the cultural norms and something that they are not accustomed to in the area. They would be doing something that seems right to them, but it’s not the usual here. So when I took them to the mall, at the food court, they wanted to try Popeye’s chicken.

They want to try McDonald’s, they want to try the sushi place and all that. And you know, in the food court, there’s tables out in the open. And they ate and they wanted to go shopping. So they left all the trash on the table, thinking that there’s going to be workers cleaning up. So it kind of looked weird the minute they stand up, didn’t start walking away and people already paying attention to them.

But instead of telling them what to do, I just stayed behind the table. I said, wait, I’m not ready to take you to the store yet, let me clean up. And I picked up their trash. I put in the trash can. I didn’t say anything. And then they felt bad because I’m not in. I’m not the service worker. I was their tour person, so they felt bad that I was doing it.

They felt a little awkward and I just didn’t say anything. But then I wait for the opportunity to say that this is what we do in America. And that was one incident. And then the next two days they even picked up their own trash in the restaurant. And then another thing is they were shopping in the store and there is a line for the checkout and the regular customers were in the line, but they didn’t know.

They just grabbed whatever they want and they rushed to the counter. And it was embarrassing because the cashier told them you got to get in line. We can’t just check you out here. But that’s what they did in wherever they came from. So again, I didn’t want to embarrass them. I just kind of stand in the line by myself and I wave at them.

I said, you come here. So I was doing it just to maintain the balance so that we don’t have, you know, attention because I got to deal with them all day. I didn’t want to make them feel bad. But also I was giving them hints like this is how you do here and there. And it also made us look better because of the local people who are looking at, you know, I do not want them to feel like, hey, you guys are because they cannot tell we are tourists or we’re local. I just don’t want us to all look bad in that situation.

People don’t care how much you know until they know how much you care. And leadership is not always about hard skills. Often times it’s about the intangibles, the empathy. And what you displayed was empathy.

And that’s something that you can’t teach—empathy and having situational awareness, where you’re aware of the fact that they’re coming from a different culture and everything is brand new. They’re focused on a thousand different things, and cleaning up may not be one of them.

So you took them by the hand without embarrassing them, and you showed them how things are done. Because it is difficult to acclimate between different cultures. What may be the norm for you—that you do with your family, that everyone cleans up— They’re looking at so many different things, the places they want to go, the things they want to do, and that’s something that might get overlooked.

So today’s topic is about leadership without breaking people. And I just wanted to share probably, you know, some scenarios. This is not a lecture, so let’s not be like philosophical and concept and things like that.

So things that relate to our daily life or something that people can relate to because when they read the story they feel like, oh, I’ve been there and that’s me too or something like that.

So I will start sharing by my work experience. I have been a graphic designer and my earlier career was taking order from my boss who are outside salespeople and they would sell anything to the client and say yes to the client just to get the deal. So they’ll come back with a bunch of notes. You got to design this.

You got to put these here, you got to put it there. So something that is impossible or cost a lot more for me to make, they just agree to the client. So I’ve done that because I was, you know, getting a paycheck at a time. So I didn’t say anything.

I did what I did and then there was times that I become independent and I started to take charge and at times I would tell the clients that I’m not going to make things the way they want. Just because they like red, that don’t mean that their customers like red.

I’ll make it green, purple and yellow for their customer and I’ll tell them the graphic, I don’t make it for you just because you pay for it. And that’s to feature ego to make you look good. But for it to be effective, I got to make sure that your target audience like it. So there was one time I was making a website for this accomplished doctor.

He was trying to open up a private practice and because he is so accomplished, he so wanted to have his website to introduce everything that he did and all the awards he got and how prestigious some of the clients are. Private clients and everything was about him. And I fought with him.

I said no, no, no, don’t do that. And he fought with me. He was like, if you don’t do this for me, I’m going to write up a bad review about you. You’re not treating your customers right.

So I said, OK I’ll do it for you, but I guarantee you have no customers. And so the website was done and it was up for two weeks and he didn’t want to have a price. And he was in one of those alternative medicine kind of thing the insurance don’t cover and people have to come up with pocket.

And his clinic was in like Midtown, a few high-priced clients there, but not too many. So the reason I said don’t do that, because people look at all those credentials. They feel like he’s too expensive to go to and they didn’t feel like he was for their problems. So he was mad at me.

He said, why, you know, I open for two weeks, nobody come to my clinic. Is there something wrong with the website? And I check analytics. I know people look at it, but there was like just nobody there to call him.

So I said, well, you know, I listen to you. I let it up for two weeks the way you want it. How about now try my way. And I told him don’t say anything but just let me try for one week and I redesigned it. I toned down. I didn’t say what he was good for and all the high class, high level clients.

I just make it like very normal, very, you know, user friendly, very welcoming for the people that live around the area. And his phone start ringing and he didn’t understand why. And I said to him, it’s not about your ego. I know you’re paying for the job.

I know you want people to praise you for all that you do. But if you do that, then the clients, they’re afraid to approach you. So you’re trying to have that kind of leadership, but it’s not matching the kind of people he tried to engage with.

And to give an idea fair, we’ll also jump into after that. Appreciate that, Jamie. Every single role within a company I think is important, no matter what you’re doing from like the garbage man to the one who’s running the company because you need to, for the polarization to run and the management style for that to make sure everything is getting done. Like the management versus like the CEO.

That’s strategic versus tactical, you know. And you do need the strategy side to make sure everything is moving in the right direction. There’s a positive growth, there is a vision for the whole organization, but then the tactical side is making sure all these things are actually being implemented. And I’ve seen some people who are just really bad at strategy, but they are really good at making sure things are happening at the tactical level.

Individualistic, each person is making things happen that each person’s being motivated. But I’ve seen some people the opposite where they are really good at tactics and really bad at strategy and they cannot think beyond tomorrow.

And so I think every person has that capacity to kind of specialize in their role and do what’s best for them. And like myself, just to give some background, I started as a insurance agent for a few years. I did a lot of work in finance, financial literacy, financial education.

I eventually switched over to work in education where I did some work with thousands of kids on getting them work based learning, internships, job placement. And at the end of the day, a lot of that was also working on with them to go and improve their lives because many of them came from not the best neighborhoods, not the best places.

And it was just a lot of enlightening themselves and telling them that there’s a better world outside of where they are, right? And so I got a chance to, you know, improve their lives and learn how every single of them was able to work and put them in a position where they’re where they’re better.

But now I have my own business. I started a few different companies all in like marketing design, but I’m also in government as well, too similar to you, Jamie, of advocating for things in education and just, you know, fighting for what’s right for for those that need the most support. But yeah, I’ll give some room for others to go and jump into.

I personally see that as a, you know, cross as an immigrant cross culture person. I, I personally actually appreciate the American side where the autonomous and acceptance of differences, right. I’ll never be the leader today if it’s not because of America.

I can do whatever I feel authentic to me. I can lead like mental health, you know, coaching that’s unheard of in my culture to even talk about all these things and we are talking today and I think that Americans, the openness and diversity allowed that to happen.

It’ll be really hard to do that in Asia and and you know about Asia now more open as well. So I think the other part, I think it’s a balance back that I think lead leadership a lot of time. We, we, I, I really taught to see that. Wow, it’s one to 100. Wow, that’s kind of scary.

Who do I focus? And then I also realise I would talk that we have essentially you are leading to one, you’re talk. You only can talk to one person at a time. Even you’re in a big group. You know, I do this. I can demonstrate this. You’re my leader. Or when you walk on the stage way, how if you are trying to talk to the whole room, you talk to nobody.

Look at this. Hi everybody, good morning. How are you doing? So you’re talking to nobody. I was like, wow, I do that all the time. You know, I’m talking to nobody, but I say, wait, how you pass. You have to look at George I for a moment and relate to George. Hey, Josh, thanks for being here. Thanks for joining this community.

You take your time away from your, your children and your your busy lifestyle to be in this conversation with us. I really appreciate you being here. All of a sudden it changed because it’s personal and which is I think that that’s the good thing about our culture, which is personal.

Like like what what Zach talk about that. Hey, the mom called her son and said, hey, come over, you know, like, hey, that’s personal. And a lot of time I feel like leader forgot about that for like focus on the leads in the group and rather than hey, it’s still person to person and it’s still important to make everyone felt included felt empathy.

And I think that is in our blood as Asian that that’s a good thing about it. And in our group of born in culture that’s very tight knit. And I think that we we bring that tool, we build, teach the word, the tool that is important not to not, not no voice, you know, not, not not claiming your voice. Like everyone here say, we have to claim our voice. We need to lead and we need to stand up.

But at the same time, hey, we need to care about each and every person, not just a whole list and and and just become title and and and I think that is balanced the both individual and collective and their greatness of both. I think we are unique as Asian American can share to the world. I feel like in Asia, it’s lacking personal voice, it’s lacking personal space.

You know, all of a sudden I get home that OK my sister call me do this thing and my brother could be do the data by the time where did my day gone, you know, like you know, and you know, but over here I just got here like last week. I was like too quiet.

Nobody here, you know, I’m homesick immediately and I was like, Oh my God, you know, you’re so just like, but I appreciate the freedom I have like to that said, OK I can do this XY and Z no one going to bother me.

I used to work for a San Francisco food bank. I’m like the coordinator for all the Chinatown, the immigrants communities and, and their food distribution. It’s almost forty of them and, and yes, you know, I have the power to stop their food literally. And, and, and, and when I go investigate what are some of the big issues in those food pantry?

You know, so one of the food pantry I went to was the is a high concentration of Asian, Chinese seniors and the African American senior. That was when I first arrived. They told me, OK we have we couldn’t fix this issue. They have been fighting left and right and you know, we need somebody to go in.

And so I went in literally I walked down and just like, oh, wow, everyone swam into me and talk like talking to the president. Oh, my complaint about this complaint about that. I was like, Oh my God, you know, I just like, oh shit, you know, So I was like, OK then I, I really see is like a lot of racial issue between the two community.

And I did literally the first first thing I do that OK I do have to stop this madness until I say, OK OK I need to stop this food for two weeks and let them know that there’s consequence of what they’re doing to each other. And then as I start investigating what I really found through my personal conversation with people of the people volunteering, I realized that, oh, that is just a lot of cultural misunderstanding, you know, if you don’t look from the inside.

So basically the misunderstanding, you know, if you are, you know, many of us live Asian and Chinese that we know that we can line up in a line like a sardine and then we add to more of the line.

Oh, I’m not just for me, my, this card is for my son and then my daughter and then my neighbors, they’re not even there. They make up their rules and they’re not even there. And then so it makes the African American senior very angry, like, wow, I’m, I’m not going to get into that sardine line.

They’re going to push me out like nobody. And, and so you know, all that. So I what I do, I know what to do. I pretend I cannot walk. I have disability, I have doctor knows the blah, blah. I was like wow. And then they pulled a relationship with the senator or we’ve been here long enough before you guys. So so we we have a better say, you know, so there was continuing of that others like, Oh my God, you know, I realized that one, I have to be smarter than these people when they fake all those numbers, you know, they fake those number, they order that or they go through their different ways of.

So when I see that, OK I really need to help them to understand that, Hey, if you guys don’t fight for the food, we actually have enough food for everyone. We calculate by per household how many people it should be enough. But it’s because somebody fight, they get more or get less. That’s why we end up in this situation. So, So what the other day that I actually not just have to re appropriate their, the way they, they line up, they understand the culture and but they also understand that if you don’t fight, you actually have the same benefit.

ut if you fight, you’ve got no benefit. And so, and then I retrain them. I say that, Hey, cultural differences are day- to- day. Asian nod their head, they look down and doesn’t mean that they they look down on you. They respectful and that’s why they do that right. African American friend, they’re not rowdy, they’re not rude, they are happy.

They are always doing this, they always loud, they like you. That’s how they express themselves. So it’s a whole two different culture expressing themselves. So you got to allow them to have their space. They’re going to allow you to have your, have your politeness and, and so you guys can work together, right? So at the end I retrain, I, I have half the volunteer Chinese, half African American. I make up, I clear all the they are, they are, they are cheating.

I say every week it’s going to be different colored. You have to make up your own. And then everyone follows the rule. This is America, not like your wherever rule from wherever country, you know. I just, I don’t, I don’t just put back the policies, but I actually put back the humanity.

I put back the love and the connection of the people so that they can work together and understanding. So I realized that, oh, rules in one way, but without the human connection and love, rule doesn’t work. You can have all your rules all you want. And so that’s one of my learning experience of being in America, helping the intercultural relationships.